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Critics Condemn Teen Curfew

Supporters want to quell unrest in downtown Silver Spring, which the County Council President says 'is on the precipice now of failing.'

Montgomery County's proposed curfew drew more bile than praise Tuesday afternoon at the controversial measure's public hearing in Rockville, including pointed criticism from members of the County Council that will ultimately decide its fate.

The curfew found unwavering support from police brass and Silver Spring civic leaders, who argued that the curfew would give officers a much-needed tool for preventing juvenile crime. But 18 of the 27 people who testified to the Council rebuked curfews on several fronts, from their questionable effectiveness to the difficulty of enforcing them fairly to their long-term impacts on teens’ trust of police.

"It would criminalize any teenager out at night and without any discernible benefit," said Abigail Burman, 17, of Silver Spring, who co-founded the Facebook page Stand Up to the MoCo Youth Curfew, which has rallied more than 6,400 supporters. "This is suppressive without being preventative."

More than 100 people—many of them wearing nametags that read "Hanging out is not a crime"—attended the hearing on Bill 25-11, which was introduced at the request of County Executive Isiah Leggett (D) on July 12. The curfew would run from 11 p.m. to 5 a.m. Sunday through Thursday, and midnight to 5 a.m. on Fridays and Saturdays. Exceptions include minors who are working or are accompanied by a parent.

Similar laws have been in effect in Washington, D.C., and Prince George’s County for more than a decade. Montgomery’s version was spurred in large part by a sprawling gang fight in downtown Silver Spring over the July 4th weekend, during which a 17-year-old girl was stabbed. The teens involved in the fight told police they had come to Montgomery County because of curfews in surrounding jurisdictions.

"These recent events and hundreds others call for immediate action," said Montgomery County Police Chief J. Thomas Manger. "A curfew law may not be a panacea, but it would be a valuable law enforcement tool. … Nobody’s claiming that this will reduce crime rates. … This will continue to allow us to prevent crime from happening."

Detractors pointed to curfews attempted across the country, many of which were thrown out in court or debunked by research.

"The vast majority of studies on curfews, including D.C. and Prince George’s, have not found that they reduce crime," said Michael Mage, co-chairman of the county chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union. "Police can already detain kids at any time if they suspect criminal activity."

Manger dismissed that argument—"You can find reports that support whatever position you want to take," he said—and was stalwart in defending the curfew’s value as a deterrent. But he acknowledged that some of the particulars are up for debate and that it remains unclear how the curfew would be enforced.

That uncertainty troubles the county’s police union. Torrie Cooke, corporation vice president of the Fraternal Order of Police Lodge 35, deemed the curfew a drastic and overly broad endeavor that will drain the department’s resources and force officers to act as parents.

The County Council met the curfew with ambivalence—finding dismay over its details and frustration with the process, but acknowledging the urgency of the issues that compelled it.

"The experiment that is downtown Silver Spring is on the precipice now of failing," said Council President Valerie Ervin, who represents the Silver Spring district.

Calling the curfew a narrow response to a complex problem, Councilwoman Nancy Navarro stressed the need for a “serious and very frank discourse” on the broader state of the county’s youth.

Several council members complained that the curfew has been hastily proposed. Phil Andrews, chairman of the Council’s Public Safety Committee, said the bill seems written “at warp speed,” while Council Vice President Roger Berliner called it “unfathomable” that the problems in Silver Spring could have grown so dire without the Council having any indication.

"The issue is whether or not this is the most appropriate tool. What this feels like to me is that Montgomery County youths are paying the price for youths from other jurisdictions," said Berliner (D-Dist. 1) of Potomac. "I’m proud that we’re not the District of Columbia or Prince George’s County when it comes to violence in the community. The statistics are going the right way and we really need to work through what the other options are."

The curfew proposal now heads to a Sept. 15 session of the Public Safety Committee.

"It clearly needs a lot of work," Ervin said. "… We’re far from a perfect bill. We don't even know where it's going yet."

Sebastian Montes contributed to this report.

ilkunta July 26, 2011 at 11:14 PM
They had this meeting at 1:30 in the afternoon. People have to work! They need to have evening and weekend meetings. This is 2011, why not allow phone in or webcamera comments?
Daniel Simon July 27, 2011 at 08:27 AM
very good point
Alex Hilton July 27, 2011 at 12:33 PM
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Malcolm Wilson July 27, 2011 at 12:53 PM
Where in the heck is the Council and MoCo police leadership in this scenario? The WaPo reports that the confrontation began at 10:30 PM when approximately 50-75 "gang members" got off a bus and congregated at Colesville and Georgia and then around 11:00 a similar number from a rival gang exited the SS Metro station. The fight didn't begin until 12:30 AM but these two large groups went unchecked? MoCo needs to adapt the stance that NYC took with Times Square. Enforce the rules already in place. Tell the MoCo police to patrol the streets, not stand around their vehicles talking to each other. This will be a law that will be enforced on those who least deserve it. The "good" kids will obey and move on and those that want to be gang bangers will find a way to circumvent the rules. It's also a little disconcerting that this rule is not in synch wth the DMV restrictions on probationary drivers licenses. Sad to say that this is another feeble attempt by an overwhelmed county council to show it is concerned about it's citizens without taking real action that would provide real results.
Jeff Hawkins July 27, 2011 at 01:23 PM
Well said Malcolm.
Theresa Defino July 27, 2011 at 02:13 PM
It was extremely clear from ALL the testimony--and I watched it all--that Silver Spring has a problem. I urge the council to fix the problem that Silver Spring has and to kill this proposal in commitee.
jag July 27, 2011 at 04:09 PM
"The experiment that is downtown Silver Spring is on the precipice now of failing," said Council President Valerie Ervin. The amount of crap Ervin spews on a regular basis is amazing. Fear mongering know-nothing.
Jeff Hawkins July 27, 2011 at 04:26 PM
This is a complex problem and a curfew will not help at all, it's not the answer, it's not even part of the answer. To single out Silver Spring will only lend the County to playing a game of "wac-a-mole". It might be Silver Spring this year and then Wheaton, Rockville, Gaithersburg and Germantown next year. Which I believe will happen anyway eventually regardless of what happens to Silver Spring. Our County is headed for some major problems in the future, of course unless you live in Chevy Chase, Potomac or maybe Olney. We will have isolated pockets of wealth surrounded by an ever growing poverty stricken area.
CTPati July 27, 2011 at 04:31 PM
Why do minors need to be out on the streets between "11 p.m. to 5 a.m. Sunday through Thursday, and midnight to 5 a.m. on Fridays and Saturdays"? Especially since there are "exceptions includ[ing] minors who are working or are accompanied by a parent." I submit that little that is good comes from youth being out unsupervised at those hours. Also, many are the cases (a beautiful university student in NY comes to mind) of even those in their 20's having their lives tragically ended when they are out at 1 and 2 a.m.
Malcolm Wilson July 27, 2011 at 05:05 PM
"nothing good usually happens after 2:00 a.m." was a standard quote of my parents and I passed that along to my kids, now grown. I would say that this would apply to anyone, adults included. But to try to legislate good behaivor without enforcing the rules already on the book (loitering, disorderly conduct) is a waste of energy and time.
Jeff Hawkins July 27, 2011 at 05:27 PM
I would submit to you that since most crimes both minor and major are most likely commited by adults and most likely after 11:00 and 12:00 on the weekend, then the County really needs to enforce a curfew on "ALL" residents. Many "unspupervised" adults get into trouble after dark. Everybody off the streets after 11:00..........everybody. :)) Of course I say all this tongue in cheek. Why do minors "need" to be out on the streets you ask? Because they can if they want to, it's called being a free country.
CTPati July 27, 2011 at 07:21 PM
Points taken, but I still say "that little that is good comes from youth being out unsupervised at those hours."
Jeff Hawkins July 27, 2011 at 07:38 PM
Yours is a valid point, but to penalize everybody for the actions of some is wrong I think. I don't think the County can legislate good behavior or parental control. It's either there or it isn't. If there is a problem it has to be met in a different approach, such as Malcolm suggested with enforcing the laws already in the books. Our elected officials I think try to re-invent the wheel in order to give the appearance that they are doing something. When if they just enforced the existing laws, things might work out better. You are right though, usually nothing good happens at that hour of the night, but they do have the right to be there as long as they are not commiting a crime.
Will July 28, 2011 at 01:24 AM
The link below is an article about the effectiveness of curfews from the Washington Post. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/rosenwald-md/post/do-curfew-laws-actually-work/2011/07/27/gIQAQ8ZucI_blog.html “The evidence does not support the argument that curfews prevent crime and victimization. Juvenile crime and victimization are most likely to remain unchanged after implementation of curfew laws.”
d August 02, 2011 at 06:08 AM
I think that county's should act the way states do concerning people driving in a a state with an out of state learners permit, you need to follow the laws of the state you are driving in, but also the laws of your own state. So with the curfew, if your a PG or DC resident, you need to follow your own county's curfew whether or not you are in PG or DC, or MoCo. So it stops teens from coming over here, (stopping the issue that caused the incident that started the curfew, without punishing MoCo residents who from reading this article have done nothing wrong).
ilkunta August 04, 2011 at 12:47 AM
d: How would this be enforced? A Pg resident could easily say "I live in SS".
Will August 04, 2011 at 11:31 AM
Lilkunta, A 17 year old could also say they are 18. If one is the issue so is the other.
Beth August 16, 2011 at 10:27 PM
I think that areas that have high crime rates attributed to teens should look at imposing a curfew, not the county on the whole. Why punish all for the poor choices and acts of a few? Does Silver Spring have the authority to do this instead of the County? One kid says he has a ton of AP homework and goes for a run some evenings at 11pm or a little later, after which he sometimes returns home after midnight. That's one perfect example of why a curfew for all does not make sense. One thing we do to try to parent more effectively, is to encourage our kids to hang out and play games or listen to music together at one another's homes so as to DISCOURAGE sneaking out. We GIVE them the out to be together late into the evening (really morning) without getting into trouble and allow them to walk home or be driven by a parent if it's too far. What would this curfew do to prom and homecoming goers? The curfew law is not a one-size fits all solution to teen crime related incidents! Would I be reprimanded as a parent for bringing my child home after midnight? What happens to the family returning home from travel after curfew and needing to run to the store for essentials? Would we see our child carted off in a police cruiser when entering a grocvery store late-night? That would be ridiculous! Maybe MoCo should stop cutting its police force and instead beef up its numbers and beat patrol officer numbers!
ilkunta August 16, 2011 at 10:58 PM
Beth: Wheaton & SS arent cities( tk, gburg) or towns(knsington, wash grove). They are CDP so they have to follow MoCo laws, they cant enact their own. I think that SS needs to broken up into 4 districts for MCPD to police. I think needs to hire more security. I think the police need to stop sitting on the barracade @ Ellsworth/Fenton & instead walk around! Walk up Fenton to Whole Foods, left on Wayne, & back around. Walk up Ellsworth to the Fountain. SHOW YOUR PRESENCE.
elizabeth scott October 14, 2011 at 02:44 AM
it makes me glad to see citizens with interest and i must admit that all good points in order for any structure to take place and laws to be obeyed follow what is all ready in place,and not single one area but all areas and if authority speaks with respect some of these things can be corrected more sometimes laws need to be revised such as our teens can quit school at age 16 where are they going but to the streets inforce the loitering standing near metro stations and convience stores doing what scoping their victims this is everyone's problem it is not who has money or not where you came from this is a serious concern for our neighborhoods
CTPati October 14, 2011 at 09:34 PM
If you want to be understood, perhaps you should check out a library book on grammar, read it and then practice writing before you post. A sentence has a subject and a verb, and ends with a period. Your post is gibberish, because you have used no punctuation and no discernible sentence structure. You may have some good thoughts on this subject, but you failed to communicate them.
louis pole February 04, 2012 at 02:39 PM
elizabeth scott (marquez), this is daleann al-hamad trying to reach you. please reach out to me at maildaleann "at" gmail.com. Sorry for the code, never know what these filters will remove. hoping you are well and looking forward to touching base.

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