Since when is an unintended consequence of a homicide considered a "natural" death?

As is his routine Leroy Carhart left MD for Nebraska soon after he aborted Jennifer Morbelli and her 33-week-old daughter, Madison Morbelli while she was still in medical distress from the abortion. Leroy Carhart does not have hospital priviledes in Maryland so he can't treat any woman he aborts who needs hospital care.

Jennifer went to the hospital because she couldn't contact Carhart and hospital personnel couldn't contact him to get the medical details of her condition.

Should Maryland have a law requiring abortionists like Leroy Carhart who kill in Maryland to have hospital privileges near their abortuaries so if a woman needed help the abortionist would be able to provide it at the hospital and inform the hospital medical staff of the medical condition of the woman?

Should Maryland have another law requiring abortionists to remain in the state until they are sure the women he aborts are recovered from the surgery he performs?

I think so, what do you think?

No, she did not deserve this, neither did her baby. What a tragedy. Carhart deserves a prison sentence. The State of Maryland is also complicit in that it allows these late term abortions which are an act of violence and really murder. That child was viable. The child should have rights. Unfortunately, we seem to treat animals better than our own offspring. Morbelli did not have to die. This was gross negligence. Carhart should not have a license to practice medicine.

Kay- What horrible comment by someone who claims to be pro-life but has no heart, no empathy and no understanding of the emotional, physical, medical or legal situations you are condemning. My heart goes out to the husband and family left behind. They lost a loving wife, daughter and friend; a young mother who desperately wanted her child, but the abnormalities made it a dangerous pregnancy. Amniotic fluid embolism is a very rare condition, and the pathologist determined that the death was "natural" because this type of embolism happens in complication pregnancies. Legally that means that nothing Dr. Carhart did contributed to the death. There is a very high probability that the same outcome would have resulted had she attempted to deliver the abnormal pregnancy at full term. She, with the support of her whole family, made the difficult choice to end the pregnancy in an attempt to reduce the risk to her life. You are so wrong to think there would be no funeral for that child. To blame the mother and say she deserved this horrific, painful death is just so hateful and anti-Life, you don't even deserve a place at the table to discuss it.

What exactly were the abnormalities? If her life really had been in danger, she never would have had to leave the State of NY to come to MD. The medical examiner said she died of abortion related complications. Abortion in this case was not a spontaneous act of nature. Carhart was no where to be found when the family realized things had gone badly amiss. I am afraid you are speculating. There needs to be an investigation. This may have been legal, but it was not safe.

Yes, as a matter of fact, I do know about the anogyzing decision she had to make, since in 1993 I had the same decision to make! I had my son stillborn on May 14th, 1993. I had to decide if I would give my son life or kill him and it wasnt an easy one but I just can not imagine as a mother deciding your child isnt worth saving! I am not cold. I have gone through so much heartache and stress of having a special child that I lost. In the end, did her decision benifit the family? If she had other children, they lost their mother! Can you actually say she made the right decision??? Thank you, Niki for your opinion, but I think I deserve an opinion on the subject maybe even more so than you since I assume you have never had to be faced with the situation. My life was in danger too, but I decided that I would give my life for my living children, why wouldnt I do the same for the living child inside me.. So thank you, but you are so wrong! As far as having a funeral for an aborted baby, when and where does that happen? Funeral homes would be so over run if that were true with the number of babies aborted every day!

I deleted my original post, because contrary to popular opinion, I do have a heart and I wouldnt want the family to be hurt any further! I just have a very sore spot when it comes to the word abortion in any form! I lost a son that I loved dearly and I would have given my life for him if it would have saved his. I wanted to give my son every chance possible to live. I understand I cant decide for everyone, but it was the right decision for me, the only decision for me. I am not cold, I am not heartless and I do have sympathy for the family. I dont wish to cause anyone else pain, since I know first hand how that feels. So everyone can pull back the lynch mob!

Joe,

So "fly by" abortions are OK no matter the condition the woman is left in?

Honorable physicians don't do "fly by" procedures. If they have to leave, they have a doctor cover for them.

Are you sure you don't have an agenda that cares nothing about the woman being aborted?

The vast majority of people want women to receive good care even in abortions but many of the pro abortion people don't even want women to know about the medical and psychological risks of abortion as they try to kill all legislative efforts to make sure women are informed of abortion risks..

Out of the back alley to safe and legal abortions. Isn't that the reason abortions throughout pregnancy for any reason were legalized. But the pro abortion people want to keep women in the dark back alley.

I just think if its going to be legal, then yes, it shouldn't be any more dangerous than any other high risk medical procedure! That's the reasoning of making it legal, so it would be safe! That doctor was negligent!!!

Kay,

There are many abortionists who care nothing for women as patients, all they care about is the money they make from abortions. It is a dirty business.

Google "Abortuary Digest" for a sampling. Killing doesn't attract the better people.
When they realize what they are doing and how they are mistreating women people with a conscience leave the abortion business.
.

John you are preaching to the choir here!!! I hate abortion.

Isn't 33 weeks almost full-term? Why would you choose to have an abortion at that late stage? Her doctor didn't know early in her pregnancy there would have been a problem if she carried to full-term?

40 weeks is full term. I knew at between 14 and 16 weeks (and I live in a small town). Not much of a doctor if he didn't know sooner than 33 weeks!

This article leaves out a lot of pertinent facts. First, this baby was wanted by the couple; they had set up a baby gift registry. You don't do that if you don't WANT the child, or are even THINKING of an abortion! A serious issue obviously arose-- maybe the child had a serious disability, or the pregnancy itself caused complications that were life-threatening. Kay, it's not always possible to know of a fetus' disability at an early stage in the pregnancy. Not all disabilities are genetic or chromosomal, which are really the only ones that can be detected during the first trimester. If the heart or brain is malformed, for example, that can only be detected when the fetus is large enough for a sonogram to find more than a couple of lines on a monitor. This, or a threat to the life or health of the mother, are the reason for almost EVERY late-term abortion.

Second, the condition given as the cause of death, amniotic fluid embolism, while quite rare, is not unique to women who have abortions. It also happens in otherwise uneventful, full-term pregnancies. So yes, it WAS a natural cause of death.

NOBODY is "pro-abortion." I am pro-CHOICE. It's nobody's right to make that decision for someone else. I'm 61 and remember the days of back-alley abortions.

The only thing to do is to extend your sympathy to the family. This young couple had a sad decision to make about a child they had wanted, and the husband and family do NOT deserve to be harassed or condemned.

I'm not trying to harass. I'm sorry if it seems. I'm sure, just knowing my grief at losing my son, it's already unbearable! I'm not commenting on anything else said on here. Never my intentions to hurt anyone. Like I said in an earlier post, I don't assume I can make the decision for anyone but myself in these situations.

Kay, I'm genuinely sorry for your loss. It seems to me, however, that you're projecting your feelings onto the decision of others. You stated before my comment that the doctor was a poor obstetrician if he didn't know anything was wrong before 33 weeks-- I don't know what medical conditions prompted the abortion, but I do know that it's certainly possible that everything seemed fine until the fetus reached a certain size. Dr. Carhart has an EXCELLENT reputation. John Naughton's characterization of him is 100% WRONG.

I have a young adult daughter who is mentally challenged. As a loving, caring mother of someone who will always be a mental 6- or 7-year old, I can tell you that I would never wish the experience on ANYBODY. If I knew someone who found out late in pregnancy that their child would be disabled, I would offer my full emotional and moral support to the woman regardless of her decision to abort or not. But personally, privately, I would hope that the woman would opt for a late-term abortion, because I KNOW what that family and the child will live with. I suspect that this is the decision that this couple had to make, and abortion was likely the more merciful choice. Nobody could have foreseen the mother's death, and the condition that killed her had no bearing on whether the pregnancy was terminated or not. The doctor was NOT negligent.

Again, I'm deeply sorry for your loss. However, I think it's led you to be rather judgemental about the decisions of others.

Dori,

Thank you for your comments. Everyone involved needs prayers, especially abortionist Carhart.

You say Carhart has an "EXCELLENT" reputation ...

Abortionist Carhart does not have an "excellent" reputation, he has a terrible reputation. In Nebraska he was reprimanded by the health department and he is under criminal investigation. In Kansas in 18 months ten women were rushed to the hospital from his abortuary and one woman died.. In Maryland he lied on his application for his medical license and he is under criminal investigation for illegal dumping.

You say you would urge killing of a preborn baby who is mentally disabled ...
But you or no one has the right to kill another human being. Did you say you would have killed your own daughter? How cruel!

You say Abortionist Carhart was not negligent ...
I say he was for leaving Maryland before he knew Jennifer was OK. He should have stayed here until he made sure Jennifer was at least being treated for her condition brought on by her abortion. That is a requirement of a doctor but he is an abortionist

Dori,

You say maybe the pregnancy was causing a life threatening situation ...

If that were the case, why in the world would a woman leave NY to come to Maryland to be aborted by Carhart. A person in their right mind would stay in NY for medical treatment to birth the baby.

This ridiculous statement is based on pro abortion logic which never makes any sense.

Dori,

You say, "If the heart or brain is malformed, for example, that can only be detected when the fetus is large enough for a sonogram to find more than a couple of lines on a monitor. This, or a threat to the life or health of the mother, are the reason for almost EVERY late-term abortion."

Actually, a sonogram is routinely performed around sixteen weeks gestation. At this times abnormalities are detected, particularly heart and brain abnormalities.The baby is small at this time.

Fetal surgery has progressed in many areas since the 1970's. For example, fetal surgery between 19 and 26 weeks gestation is the standard-of-care for spina bifida over postnatal surgery. Pediatric surgeons are working on diagnosing fetal heart abnormalities as early as 12 weeks gestation. This not the reason for late term abortions, certainly not at 33-weks gestation.

Some 80 women and their babies have been saved from Abortionist Carhart by counselors offering them help. They have delivered normal healthy babies, showing that many normal babies have been killed by Carhart.

Dori,

You say: NOBODY is "pro-abortion." I am pro-CHOICE. It's nobody's right to make that decision for someone else. I'm 61 and remember the days of back-alley abortions.

There is no difference between pro-choice and pro-abortion: the result is a dead baby and it feels the same to the baby being aborted.

Yes, it is everyone's duty to protect human life - all human life in whatever condition. If God's command is not observed humanity descends into barbarism.

Abortions are still "back alley" because the people who do them are hired killers, who care nothing for the women they abort, only the money they make from the killing. Google "Abortuary Digest" and read some of the issues to get a feel for the low life doing abortions.

NY does not allow late term abortions for fetal abnormalities, John. Maybe you should do some research before saying something so ignorant.

John,

Let's be honest, your use of the word 'counselor' is generous. They are far more likened to bullies who are willing to use any tactic to scare women. Hardly Christ-like.

I'll be honest, every time I pass by Dr. Carhart's office and see you guys out there with your signs and posters, I think to myself that you are all doing a much better job at showcasing where his office is than Google Maps.

Zurie,

Nice to hear from you.

I answered Dori's assertion that Jennifer came to Maryland to abort because the baby was causing a "life threatening" situation.

Here is the comment:

Dori,

You say maybe the pregnancy was causing a life threatening situation ...

If that were the case, why in the world would a woman leave NY to come to Maryland to be aborted by Carhart. A person in their right mind would stay in NY for medical treatment to birth the baby.

This ridiculous statement is based on pro abortion logic which never makes any sense.

Note: I did NOT say Jennifer should stay in NY to abort Madison.

Have a good day.

Hi John,

What qualifications do these counselors have? Honestly.

They give information to vulnerable women as if its a medical certainty. Information based on opinion, not fact. Abortions causing breast cancer is simply a hypothesis and has no medical merit. In fact, the studies that found a correlation conducted by conservative groups were found to be a response bias. However, your 'counselors' provide this false information. Hardly honest.

Listen John, if you disagree with abortion - then don't get one.

Honestly,
Nic

Hi John,

I'd simply settle for the truth about your counselors...

I have no desire to go through <i>your</i> right-wing, conservative, anti-choice propaganda. ChristianNewsWire and OperationRescue, really? And there's no bias there, huh?

Kindly,
Nic

I hate abortion with a passion, and given a better forum I would join the argument but I have decided this isnt the place to do it. Posting on this particular article can only add salt to the wound of already broken hearts, should they read this. I dont want to say anything that could appear to be directed to this particular woman, and taken out of context... There is a place and time to do it and earlier I posted things that were taken as hurtful to this woman and family and I dont want that. I pray for the family that lost this dear teacher and this little baby. I pray for their peace.